Business-First Creatives

Honeybook to Dubsado: One Year Later with Mary Otanez

July 28, 2022 Colie James Episode 8
Business-First Creatives
Honeybook to Dubsado: One Year Later with Mary Otanez
Show Notes Transcript

A little over a year ago Mary hired me to streamline her business in Dubsado. She was switching from Honeybook to Dubsado, but to be honest, she was barely using that CRM for more than sending out invoices and contracts. So we can safely say this was a brand-new systems setup 😉 

A year later I interviewed Mary to ask how the systems were treating her for this week’s podcast episode and if she had made any changes. 

Here are the highlights…

[00:43] About Mary’s business
[04:20] How she was underutilizing Honeybook
[06:42] Why I began offer systems setups for photographers
[07:44] Switching from Honeybook to Dubsado + embracing automation
[09:37] Why I started offering Dubsado VIP Days
[12:45] What changes Mary made in her system in the last year
[17:38] Focusing on what she does best
[18:39] Mary’s biggest fuck-up and what she learned from it
[22:16] Advice for someone wanting to switch to Dubsado & hire me
[25:59] Using Dubsado to spend more time with clients
[27:35] Being consistent in your photography and systems
[30:25] More time for the things that bring you joy

Show Notes
https://coliejames.com/episode-008/

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Colie:

Hey Mary. Welcome to the Business-First Creatives podcast. How are you today?

Mary:

I'm doing good. Thank you for having me.

Colie:

Ah, it's so wonderful to have you. So before we begin, why don't you tell the listening audience who you are and what you do and where you exist?

Mary:

Okay. My name is Mary Otanez and I live in Richmond, Virginia. Um, and I am a motherhood photographer. And I'm also a brand photographer as well. I started out as a wedding photographer, um, and loved it and was very successful at it and, um, then at the peak of my success, I decided to change things. Awesome. Um, and, but it's been wonderful. I feel like now I'm in a nice groove with this new transition into this type of work. I used to be a producer, at a advertising agency, for about 10 years. And I loved that. I always say that's my grad school cause I was an art major. And so I kind of feel like working in this such an intense environment and yeah, a lot on the line with money, budgets and schedules, and it was like a really good grad school for me. So I think it's set me up well for running my business.

Colie:

I would imagine that some of that advertisement agency information comes in handy when you're doing brand photography.

Mary:

Oh,

Colie:

So I feel like you have the inside track there.

Mary:

100%. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of like when people say, where's your edge or your niche that separates you from someone else or things like that. And that totally, it felt great because I didn't feel like I had to struggle for that one. I was like, okay, no, no, no, I'm great at production. So I can really think about the things that need to happen all the way to the shoot date, to make the shoot date, like a seamless production. And you get exactly what you want and what you need for your business. Yeah. It's a total different ball game. As opposed to like family and I'm really just going for the emotion and for the, the look and the feelings, you know?

Colie:

Yeah. I mean, you know, you know, I do very limited commercial work, but I, I, even though my commercial work is actually all related to family brands, so I don't have to like flip it in my head too much, but it is an entirely different ball game. So, what I want to talk to you about now is, how many years in did you make that switch from weddings to now motherhood plus brand. And then we're going to start talking about your systems.

Mary:

Yay. Okay. If you ever said that, like five years ago, we're going to talk about your systems. I'd be like, what are you talking about? Just to give you a tidbit into how much I have grown since. So to answer your question, I have been doing, running my own business now, I guess since 2013, so it would be 10 years. So I think I started to like transition at year four. I was already like at my peak doing great making good money, happy clients. But there was no systems by the way, there was no like automated anything. There was nothing. I was just like legit sending out a contract and just pretty old school. Actually, when I started, I was accepting checks still. I'm just like, oh grandma, you know? Um, so that was about four years. And then I kind of started making changes of not accepting weddings anymore, but it still went into the fifth year. Cause I had to finish out those weddings that a committed to. I went from a little dropping off weddings to adding maternity and then which naturally goes into newborn and just focusing on that and then realizing kind of halfway through when I went to the family narrative, I think for the first time. I think it was the first time I went to the Family Narrative, that helped me a ton to realize also what other skills I had. And I completely just, just because I left production, I, I didn't think I could carry that over. Um, and so anyway, I started doing branding work because I was like, oh, this is a total natural fit. I have a very editorial look. This is great too. So I kind of started introducing both. Like at this point, I am running a legit business. We'll jump into, I think I've actually, that's a good segue into the systems thing because yeah, I'll let you drive.

Colie:

So let's chat about that because you are my first case study that came over to the Dubsado world from HoneyBook. So tell me about when you were using HoneyBook, what you thought was missing or why it is that you decided to transition over to Dubsado.

Mary:

Just in general, I knew that the way that I was booking my shoots was just too cumbersome, time consuming, I mean a waste, just old royal waste of my time, repeating myself to, to every single client. I'm trying to remember what I had in my HoneyBook. I had just a contract and that was it. And that's all I would send out. And then I would only accept payments. So it would be an invoice that I would make basically from scratch every time. But that was an upgrade from accepting checks. You know, HoneyBook was like, was definitely an upgrade. I knew over time though, cause I was one of their first people to get in when they started. So I was kind of grandfathered in, into their one price set up. I didn't pay monthly for it. So I fought changing it because it was free. Technically, you know, I didn't have to pay monthly for it. So I did try, over time they did create like a little client management system and automated things in there. I just didn't. I understand how to do it or what I was doing. Um, and really, it just became like, I did kind of set up like a standard of process, like, you know, what I would do for each client at what time, but I, it was like almost just like a checklist. I might've, well, I might as well have just written it and posted on my wall. You know what I'm saying? Like, there was more, I w it was just like, this is what I'm going to do. And there really wasn't anything that the system was helping me with. And I'm sure there could have been, I just didn't have the know-how or the time to be honest, to do that. I need to run a business and make money and I needed to do shoots and edit. And, you know, I, last thing I need to do is hours, sitting there not knowing what I'm doing digitally. So anyway, um, I believe the first time that you started speaking about upside, I can't even remember cause I'm an old lady and have no memory. Um, do you remember, do you remember, was it the Family Narrative?

Colie:

I was on Annemie's podcast before that. So I was on the, This Can't Be That Hard podcast. Um, and then, you know, it aired on my birthday and she was asking me a bunch of questions about CRMs and like that's really when I started to transition to think about, okay, so I've been helping photographers be better photographers. Maybe I should help photographers have better systems that don't need my help to be better photographers. And so that's actually like, the six months after that first podcast guests episode, where I was on her podcast. That's when I really started to transition into. I'm going to offer this as like a standalone service, because I had been helping the students that I was mentoring, set up systems and improve their websites, and basically all of the backend stuff that, you know, helps us sell our services easier, but I had never considered like just doing that outside of like my mentoring space. And so, you know, then I put, I put it out there and then of course I talked to the Family Narrative and I'm pretty sure that's when you hired me.

Mary:

It was the beginning of 2021 that we implemented this new system for me. Um, and that was a thousand percent the only thing that has transitioned need to being a business owner, I think officially. Like, uh, I don't know what I was doing before is playing monopoly or something, you know, like, I don't know what I was doing. Yeah, playing monopoly very poorly. I just was not, um, uh, letting go of things that I thought I needed control over. And I thought maybe if people got automated emails, they would think I was inauthentic. It didn't feel like a natural to me, but then once I started hearing you talk about it and the benefits of it, and then also to see you just kind of showed me what goes on and like what you do. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is not inauthentic, this is like, this is care for your client. This is like showing up, consistently, full information, no questions, you know, left there to be had. You know, it just was an experience that I didn't think like an automated system could give you. I thought experience was really something that only as a person, person to person can happen, you're giving them the experience, but it's also, I mean, your whole setup needs to be that way. When we got started Colie, you are, you are on the go girl. You get it done. You get it done. I was so impressed. How quickly we set that up. That was crazy.

Colie:

In the beginning I was taking a little bit more time, but then I think by the time you hired me, I had discovered VIP days. And

Mary:

Yeah.

Colie:

I think with the way that my brain works, it is just easier for me to ask you for all of the information that I need from you in the pre-work. We get together, we do the strategy. And then I just go, because the longer that this process lingers, the harder it is for me to like, stay on top of just your information. So, I mean, it's as much for you as it is for me definitely. Doing the VIP days has really enabled me to make sure that like when I'm working with the one client, like you have all of my attention and I'm not trying to remember. Okay. But wait, no, Mary does motherhood, but Alison is doing these personality portraits. Okay. Wait, which one of them needs the second questionnaire? It helps me focus, which as I get older, cause you called yourself an old lady, I'm an old lady right there with you. I feel like, I feel like it just really helps me make sure that, you know, not only are we creating this awesome experience for your clients, but it's enabling me to give you a better experience as my client, which is also just as important.

Mary:

A thousand percent. The second I hired you, I knew. I knew before even it was made that that was the best business decision I've made ever. Because, um, I do see myself more as you know, the frilly artists, you know, I have a romantic mind and I like, I love beautiful things and I want to capture beautiful things. So I'm definitely an artist that rolled into trying to make this a business. Um, weddings was kind of easier, because I had basically I always called my wedding planners, my agents, because like they just do the heavy lifting for you because they're like, oh, I suggest so-and-so said I have good relationships with wedding planners. You never have to market and you never have to do all that stuff. It was kind of like a very simple thing, but I think getting into family where I feel like family work and branding work, a lot of it is, um, marketing and then pitching and there's a lot more going on there that Dubsado kind of helps me do from the beginning all the way to the end, including... like I mean all the in-between, the scheduling the information, all the way to like the review at the end. You know what I'm saying? I feel like it is for me personally, a little bit harder than weddings to create a full fledged like business that is functional and making my, uh, financial goal each month. When you're making like, you know, five to seven grand, a pop, you know, and doing like 20 to 30 weddings, it's so easy to be like, ah, it's fine. My finances are fine, you know, but when you're working, you know, photo, photo, shoot to photo shoot, and only planning out maybe, um, one to two months ahead, as opposed to weddings, which is like a year ahead, sometimes a year and a half ahead. So it's just a whole different ball game. And I just wasn't set up at all prior to hiring you. And using Dubsado, I wasn't prepared to like really have a functional business that would last.

Colie:

I mean, we're a year in, so let's, let's talk because you said that, you know, you weren't really doing it and then you hired me and it was great, but like, it's been a full year Mary. Actually at recording of this, uh, you hired me 14 months ago, or we did your set up 14 months ago. So it has been more than a year. So how do you feel about the system now versus when I initially set up and have you had to make any changes to that initial system that I delivered to you um, last year?

Mary:

No changes at all, um, because I love the way that it's set up. I mean, maybe I've added a new picture in the proposal, or like a new pricing, but overall, everything, all structured items that we created are still remaining the same. Honestly, you're going to laugh because the other day my husband was in the bathroom and I came in and I was kind of doing like a big ol', like shimmy dance in front of him. And he was like, okay, why are you so happy? Like what's going on? I'm weird and I was like singing a little song in there. And I was like, mama making money and mama not working as hard. And I'm like, I mean, it really, I mean, he was cracking up. And I was like, oh my God, you're crazy. But I was so pumped because I think finally a year into it, I have seen, I don't work when I say I don't work as hard. It's not that I don't a don't don't work hard because I do, but I'm able to do so much more now and take on more work, which means making more money because I have my time has been given back to me having this system set up. I've got people who come to my website, I don't have to do anything. All of a sudden, I just get an email. Like I have a schedule or on my, on my page, I just contact me. I don't have to go back and forth emails. I don't know what time to set up, like what time to have a call. Oh. And let me make a new link and let me. All of this is so time consuming over and over and over again, these repetitive, uh, acts that we do. And so it's so great. I'll, I'll, I'll probably will open my email right now and I'll have like a new inquiry call, you know, um, on Monday at 10 30. Great. All I have to do is show up. I've done nothing up to that point. I've done nothing. And I have to say, because the way it's set up as well. I really don't think, I think it's a hundred percent, a hundred percent of people who contact me and we talk, book. I believe you have it on your website too. It's like, make sure you've read my investment guide first. First, make sure you're ready for the pictures. And number two, make sure you've read your investment guide before you schedule with me. Cause that's the biggest thing. And then I always make sure that when we're talking on the initial call, have you reviewed the investment guide? And they're like, yes, because really if they, if they don't up to that point, then. You know, well, at least it's not waste of my, not too much of a waste of my time. It's just jumping on a call, but most of the time they have reviewed the investment page and they're ready to roll. They just want to talk to me. So I book immediately and all because of the system, when they schedule and put all their information. Yeah. I don't have to do that like I used to do in HoneyBook. I used to have to go then here's their name? Here's their number. Start a new client. That's already happened on the backend. So when I get off the call, all I have to do is open up Dubsado, and then I have to go to send proposal. I start the workflow and I just send the proposal and the proposal. And then later that night I get payment and they're booked. And, you know, my workflow then reminds me, okay, as a questionnaire sent out, it needs to be sent. I actually think I every have it automated, you can automate it or send it out yourself. I can't remember. But, um, but all of it is just done so easily. So the effort, the hours I would've put into one client prior, is literally minutes. Besides the call, the calls may be like 30 to 45 minutes. Um, but it, it it's just minutes of my time. Right now, I'm trying to spur for a healthy balance, having about eight shoots a month. And, you know, and if, if there's a brand shoot in there, I try to have less family sessions in there. Um, but I can do that and still pick up my daughter at 2 45, you know, and handle my workload and things like that because the, like what I see an assistant, I feel like would have helped with either now or way back when, is what this does. And alleviate so, I mean, honestly, I'm, I'm pumped. Like I do feel like, oh, I'm really running a business. That's functioning. I think sometimes we get confused of like, oh, I'm not really successful in unless if I'm burning myself out and that's that couldn't be further from the truth.

Colie:

I know that you keep on talking about how you have a functional business now that you have Dubsado and why you love the system that I set up for you. It, it sounds like you feel very confident using the new system since you haven't changed anything in a year. Is that an accurate description?

Mary:

Oh heck yes. Absolutely. I feel so confident in the business side that it's actually giving me opportunity to just focus what I naturally I feel like I, I am in it's more of the artist side. Right? I can focus on the creative side. That business side has a really, and I looked so buttoned up and the system makes and up the way things are delivered, looks so buttoned up. Um, I know there's these new forms the things that you've set up are already, I think, functioning with this new form and everything. I'm so pumped that, like, I don't have to do much in a section in which would usually give me anxiety.

Colie:

Well, let's talk about anxiety. I ask every single one of my guests. I ask every single one of my guests. What was your biggest fuck-up in your business? What did it cost you and what have you learned from it?

Mary:

Oh, so I had a recent one, uh, with the recent one with a brand client of mine. And if someone I've had for a while now, and we create consistent imagery. Uh, you know, and I, I'm typically pretty buttoned up, you know, like with my productions and things like that, have a set shot list and, um, get that approved. Uh, and this time it was kind of like, well, we're going to kind of do the same thing. And I was like, okay, great. Sounds good. You know, we'll just have a shoot date and let's go. This time, I did not do diligence just because of assumptions. I thought we were going to have one of our typical. And then we had, uh, once I got there and started to set up, um, the client was like, oh, so I have X, Y, and Z to also photograph. And we only had a three hour time slot and it was a full three hours. Um, and what, the additional stuff that she wanted to photograph for the shoot, which was not, um, relayed to me, but that's not her job. It's my job to say,'Hey, what's our shot list'? And to help direct her in that area. Um, but that whole pile of things that needed to be photographed was not. It was just not possible to fit it in within those three hours that I had. I had to create, um, a whole new shoot date. After that I was like, I'm so sorry. It was not able to get everything that you wanted. So I had to create, a whole new shoot date to arrive, uh, photograph everything that needed to be photographed. And on top of that, of course, because I was already there, there was a cute few other odds and ends that, you know, when it contact, can you just grab that? Can you, can you grab this real quick? I'm like, yeah, sure. You know, which I should have more of a backbone to be honest, but, you know, um, and I come home and I have to edit that all. So it's basically a completely free shoot plus extra images. Um, That that I gave, because I simply did not I mean, I, I would say that's at least, you know, uh, Anywhere from, for, in, in my prices, maybe about$1000 to$1,200 job that was completely done for free. Um, and just because I didn't ask her to sign off or I didn't even create the darn shot list.

Colie:

So Mary, what have we learned from this?

Mary:

what I have learned is that just because it is a repetitive client and someone who's like coming with what seems like the same type of content every time, doesn't mean that that's going to be enough. Communication is key and then approved shot lists are needed.

Colie:

Which you can do very easily...

Mary:

It's so painful that it could have been done so quick in a questionnaire. I could have looked at it and been like, no, you know, actually it looks like you have extra things on there. We're going to need to add an extra hour and it could have been paid for that and not have wasted a whole nother day.

Colie:

Lesson learned, Mary, lesson

Mary:

Oh yeah. But it would have been helpful to have sent a proper workflow and I did not.

Colie:

So it sounds like overall Dubsado was a really great fit for you. But if someone else is in the same position, as you. Let's say that I mean, cause I actually come across a lot of people that are like, oh, but you know, I paid this lifetime for this other CRM. And if I switched to Dubsado or I hire you, is it really gonna make that much of a difference? So how would you answer that question?

Mary:

Oh, hell yes. Again, I mean really, uh, if anyone is debating or it was like me who got HoneyBook, um, at like the grandfathered price where it was like, instead of monthly, it was a one time fee. Um, I understand, you know, that they have probably a similar type of setup. I understand that. Um, but, the service that you supply alongside Dubsado. Not only are their proposals beautiful, right? I think their forms and questionnaires and proposals can be so beautiful with pictures and graphics and you know, things. And I not only visually do I think they look more beautiful, but your service in order to get you set up properly to have something delegated to someone who's an expert in. So that you can breathe easier in, in an area of your business that you're maybe not an expert in either like mine. Like, I'm just not that, that business side that, um, creating, you know, workflows and things. It's just not my strong suit and why I tried so hard for so long to kind of like fight that because I thought a month another monthly payment was too much. But I'm making more money. Let's be clear, uh, in order to pay my monthly fee for Dubsado, which is blink compared to how much more I'm making. And also, it's not just, I know I'm talking about finances, but I also have to completely emphasize how much of my life it's given me back. And the fact that I'm not stressed. Um, I'm more like mentally also available, um, for my family, for the other things outside of my work, you know? Um, because of that, I can add a little bit of exercise time in the morning. I kind of have it set up now, like good boundaries. I don't take more than I have to. I refuse to burn out and I'm not burning out because I know what I need to make my monthly amount and that's it. So I stick to those boundaries. I have a setup system now. If someone is wanting balance like there's only a handful of things in life that I feel like you can pay to get back time. And like, this is one of them to give you current time, you know, on your plate. I'm so pumped I made that decision with you. Like so pumped I did it. And you, yes it's a new system. And then yes, there's like a learning curve, but it's not a big one. And you eventually, you know, get the hang of it and then I mean, that's why the happy dance came along, you know, with my husband. Just cause it just, it just feels so good to finally, you know, we struggle so much as photographers to just get it, to get the jobs, to make them money, to deliver beautiful work, to have it work with your family life. I mean, isn't that kind of why some of us do it too, is like we want flexible schedules and we want, you know, so this is a huge piece of the puzzle of having a functioning business. I would say this is a big piece for me.

Colie:

And I mean, I just want to add on to that because what you said about us becoming photographers, because we want the flexible schedules. What I see over and over again is that we jumped into entrepreneurship because we want the flexible schedules and granted we're scheduling our client's sessions. So when we actually have face-to-face interactions with our clients, for their photo shoots, but we ignore all of the backend stuff. And so after the shoot, I mean, the shoot is actually the smallest part of being a photographer. Because you have to get the images edited, you have to do all of the communication. You have to get the proposals out, you have to do the consultation calls. So that part that we love, which is going with our clients and actually making beautiful photographs, is overshadowed by all of this other work. And it's what makes me happy to be everybody's Dubsado fairy godmother is because I get to give you all of that time back that you know, all the time that I possibly can. Now I can't edit your images. Dubsado does not edit them, but you hire an, an editor. You can outsource that. I am just incredibly happy with whatever amount of time I can give my clients back because it does help them get that business that they actually envisioned. The one where you get to spend the quality time with your clients and you can minimize all of the other things that it takes to run the successful business, to be profitable, to continue to say yes to more client work. Because what happens if somebody came to you for like a dream shoot and you're like, oh no, well, I've already shot, you know, all of these sessions that I have all these emails that are unanswered...

Mary:

That's already lowering the client experience for something you're running lead on or it, and just in general. You know, like for your portfolio and other things, consistency is key, right? Visually, you know, having consistency and it kind of sells your, your look and your style. And I think that also goes for Dubsado. Your workflow needs consistency so that each client experiences the same thing. So when someone says Mary was super great and I really loved what she did for me. I know that that person, the next one that's coming to me is going to get the same experience that they are the other one did. This at least the same background business, the phone calls that they get exactly the same things in my, what I call my standards of process. Like what needs to be done and when, and everyone's getting the same before Dubsado having that workflow, I actually was wondering, I was like, is everyone getting the same experience? I was trying to, but it took so much effort and time and, and mental space. You know I can say that I don't work nights. I mean, every once in a while I will with my computer just for fun. But truly like when I put my daughter down to bed, it's like, Nope, work is tomorrow. I have that now I've created, I feel like I have created because of Dubsado's workflow. I feel like now it's just a really balanced business. For my life and my work, because it's important for me, my work is kind of part of me too. Like it's a form of self-expression, it's a form of how I see the world as a, it's a form of how I see, you know, whatever client has hired me. Um, and to be honored, looking at whatever they want photographed and making it beautiful. That is like, that is a part of it as a wonderful gift. And so I have more space now for that and more space for my family, you know, I would say sure. Do Falls and Springs still feel hectic, yes, but with this system and then knowing like, okay, I'm maximum taking 8, I'm going to have boundaries. Maybe if there's like some dream client that comes along on be adding them in. But I think my days of burnout are like I'm done, I'm done being burnt out.

Colie:

But, I mean, isn't that wonderful, like you've, I feel like you've set a lot of boundaries after getting your systems done, which music to my ears. But like, I feel like, you know, you know your limits now and if you're booking the eight and you're happy and you're meeting your financial goals monthly, that is excellent. But like you said, if that dream client comes along, at least now you do have the space to yes, if you want to.

Mary:

Totally. Exactly. And even honestly, even if it's not a client and I want to do a test shoot, um, I did a test shoot last year. Um, not that I needed it. Um, I just had a fun idea and I don't think I could have kind of like convinced someone I think, to pay me for this. So, um, but I wanted it up on for my work and it was kind of editorial and kind of, uh, cute, you know, tongue in cheek, kind of cute. Um, little editorial shoot for maternity and it was, it was wonderful and it filled my bucket and, um, I had time for that.

Colie:

Well, and I would guess just knowing you, Mary, I would guess that if it was tongue in cheek and it was maternity and you did it and you did it, you know, for free, you did it for yourself. I'm imagining that that's probably going to lead to some more Let's just be honest. I think if you put that stuff out in the world, someone is going to be like, oh, Mary, I didn't even think about doing that for my maternity.

Mary:

Oh, totally. And it was gray and I did, I did, it was like, um, it was an outdoor shoot. Um, and, but it was outdoor with a linen backdrop. Um, so you could tell that it was outdoor in a field, but it was a linen Bactrim. You could see my C stands, use it, you know, so. It just leaned towards editorial, but I wanted it to be super light and cute and, um, uh, playful was the word that I was going for. Um, and it was wonderful and yeah, and it definitely, it... I got two jobs that are very similar to that based off of that shoot.

Colie:

Amazing Mary amazing. Well, I think that we have talked about everything that I had on my list. I just want to say thank you so much for hopping on my podcast and telling me all about how the systems have affected your business for the last year. I am super excited to hear that you have all of these boundaries and that your business is thriving.

Mary:

It's so cool that like that, wasn't your intent to go out and do this service that evolved into this service because, um, it's just meant to be. Like, this is a huge help and there was a missing piece there I think. Photographers. We needed someone like you to come in and say, Hey, I know how to do this, and I'm gonna make this look beautiful and it's going to be seamless for you. And I'm going to do all the heavy lifting and you just have to sit back for two weeks and then you're going to have a new system. Like that's pretty fairy godmother. It really is. I owe you the biggest, biggest, biggest, thank you.

Colie:

That's awesome, Mary. Well, that's it guys. This has been another episode of the Business-First Creatives podcast. I'm your host Colie James tune in next time and remember, subscribe and review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks guys.

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